Annie Crawley on the emotions of diving with the Humpbacks of Tonga, and the "Mother of Sharks" on keeping it simple underwater

SPEAKER_08 0:03

The Deeper Blue podcast is brought to you by Sunto, Finnish Engineering Pioneering Adventure from Mountaintop to Ocean Floor since 1936. Sunto. Welcome to the Deeper Blue Podcast, your weekly guide to everything that is happening around the world underwater. My name is Stephen Wheelan. I'm the founder of Deeperblue.com, the world's most popular diving website. Every week, the Deeper Blue Podcast covers everything that's happening in scuba diving, free diving, diving travel, and ocean advocates world. So join us as we explore the Deeper Blue.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Hi, welcome to the Deeper Blue Podcast. This is Jason Leas, producer of the podcast. In today's episode, we start off with the news of the week underwater with Deeper Blue founder Stephen Whelan and co-host and founder of Girls at Scuba, Sarah Richards. Then co-host Lyndon Walbert speaks with Annie Crawley, or Ocean Annie as she's known. And Annie shares her views on what it means to be a diver in the ocean and an incredible experience she had with a humpback mother whale in Tonga. Then we hear a top tip from the mother of sharks, Christina Zanato, as she offers up that things don't always need to be new. Finally, we end with the best dive ever from Jonathan Self, who explains the magic of Mexico's cenotes. But first, the news of the week underwater.

SPEAKER_08 1:47

Welcome to the deeper blue news section for the week. So we've got a bit of a change this week. Jason is off working on non-podcast related stuff. So I have the lovely Sarah co-host here with us today. Hi, Sarah.

SPEAKER_06 2:01

Hi. Got more of an English feminine accent compared to Jason's. So the news is not going to sound as dramatic.

SPEAKER_08 2:09

It's not going to sound as dramatic, but it's going to sound far more sophisticated, I think, is probably the way to do it. But we'll be doing then more of this actually. So the idea is that we will be rotating the co-hosts to do the news occasionally. So as much as you all love hearing Jason and I whittle and prattle on about the news every week, we're going to try and mix it up with people who really know what they're talking about. So here we go.

SPEAKER_06 2:31

You've been demoted on your own podcast.

SPEAKER_08 2:33

I have. I've been demoted on my own podcast. So let's get into the news of the week. First off, the Marine Conservation Society has announced the release of their latest edition of the Good Fish Guide, which is a guide they produce every year, which is all about rating the different fish species. It's UK specific Marine Conservation Society, it's a UK charity, and they really try and highlight what's good, what's bad to buy and eat in places like supermarkets and in restaurants and so on. They hire some of the best choices, which include pot caught langersteins from the west coast of Scotland, North Sea Haddock caught by Otter Troll, Signet or Longline, or Cornwall Hake caught by Gill or Fixnet. I love this guide. But what I would say is I actually watched the documentary Sea Spiracy, which we talked about a couple of weeks ago. And Sarah, did you watch the documentary as well?

SPEAKER_06 3:26

I watched it last night. It came out yesterday. So it's been Talk of the Town, and the Marine Conservation Society were actually mentioned in it. And I mean, first off, their fish guide is great. You know, it's got this like traffic like system, you know, where you can tell like green is the best, red's the worst. It's really good. They've got loads of different species on there. The only thing is, is that I don't know about you, but I've never seen somebody like stopped at a supermarket aisle going through their phone looking to see which traffic like number the fish is that they're about to purchase. So I think it's a great guide. I think there's definitely a gap in the market to digest this information a little bit easier. And then for anyone that has watched Sea Spiracy, we won't give too much away, but they've kind of uncovered some kind of truths behind fish being sustainable at all. Is fish even sustainable? I mean, that is the big question, especially after last night's documentary.

SPEAKER_08 4:20

Yeah, well, I've seen quite a lot of stuff on social media, which people now talking very much, and I know you very much do this anyway, Sarah, is not eating fish, but that's kind of where a lot of the thinking is now going is around sustainability and and you know, choosing not to eat fish. Everyone knows and jokes about the fact that I did veganuary. I actually did two months of being vegan, a full-time vegan, January, February. But people do things like fish free February as an example. There's a big trend at the moment in looking at making lifestyle choices around what you're eating based on environmental impact, which is a really important thing. Have you always not eaten fish, Sarah? What's what was that?

SPEAKER_06 4:56

No, I haven't. I've not eaten fish for about three years. And actually, one of the reasons that I stopped was I actually went to a dive centre and they were not serving fish. And I was like, that's brilliant that you don't serve fish on your menu. And they were kind of like, yeah, but why would we? We're scuba divers. Like we tell people not to touch fish, but do you know what's worse worse than touching fish? Eating fish. And of course I knew that, you know, but something in my head there, there and then clicks, and I was like, I'm diving with animals, you know. I'm like, oh, don't get too close just in case I could accidentally touch it, but I could quite happily eat it. So my mindset completely changed, and you know, as scuba divers, we're almost preached into the choir here, so it'd be interesting to see if you know people do have uh opposing opinions. But the main take back from the documentary yesterday was that everybody should give up fish and we should completely stop fishing and fisheries, and obviously that in itself is just not sustainable because there are a lot of communities and a lot of people that rely on fish for their nutritions, for their income. So that's just something that I don't personally think is completely possible. But I do think if you're like us and you have access to alternatives, then I would really consider swapping out fish from your diet.

SPEAKER_08 6:08

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as scuba divers, as free divers, we generally are in a more privileged position than a lot of people in the world to be able to go and do these activities. So we can probably be in a position to make more informed choices and have a choice, right? Rather, because some some communities, some people have no choice about being able to decide what they can and can't eat. So it's a really nuanced. I'm really interested to see what the community generally think about this. It's gonna be a bit polarizing, I'm sure, but it's a really important debate to have, especially after you know, one of the other things that I saw this week actually just feeding into it around not just sustainability, but how bad it is to eat some things like fish, because microplastics are obviously a key thing. And we saw a report this week in New Zealand, the How Reiki Gulf. I'm pretty sure I've I've destroyed the name. So apologies to everyone in New Zealand for that area. But they did a study around microplastics and fish, and they discovered that a quarter of the fish in the area had microplastics in their gut. So this also feeds into, I mean, the whole plastic problem, which is a major issue for the oceans, overfishing, another major issue for the oceans. They almost come together at this one, where there's plastic in fish, in the fish that you're eating, that's then being ingested as you eat the fish. Another reason potentially not to be eating fish as part of this.

SPEAKER_06 7:22

Yeah, that study doesn't surprise me at all. And there's been similar studies here and on the coast of the UK. The fact is, is microplastics is very easy for marine life to digest. So you can understand why they're finding microplastics in these marine animals. And yeah, that's another thing that we try so hard to reduce our single-use plastic and our plastic consumption. So when it's at the front of your head that plastics can also be in the fish you eat, it gives you an ulterior motive to make some better informed choices on eating fish.

SPEAKER_08 7:52

Absolutely. I think we'll be tracking this a little bit longer because obviously Sea Spiracy only just came out. People only start to digest it and listen to it. So let's see what we have to say in the next couple of episodes of the podcast and see the conversation. Next bit of news. I really do hope this episode of the news isn't gonna be too depressing for people, but it's some free diving news that Adrian International, the governing body for free diving, has just announced that unfortunately the pool world championships, which were due to be held in June, have just been cancelled. They just can't see how they can organise it safely with all the travel in June. It was due to be held 19th to 29th of June this year. Just a bit too early. I think things are starting to open up just a little bit too early, but that's now two years that the pool world championships have been closed, which is unfortunate, really unfortunate, especially when you think about all the effort that all these organizers go to. Not like freediving is like the Olympics, but you're told 10 years or 15 years in advance when you're going to host the Olympics. It's a similar sort of thing with the freediving competitions. They go through a very lengthy process to put their submissions in and get selected. And it must be devastating to see all that work that goes in and being so close with all these vaccines starting to be rolled out and people starting to travel and you know, things start to pick up. So we won't be seeing any pool competition this year from the ADA side of things, but we're still waiting to hear whether the depth competition will be happening this year. So we'll still keep an eye out for that one.

SPEAKER_06 9:14

Yeah, that's a shame. You know, my heart goes out to all the athletes as well, the free divers who have been training for this for years. And, you know, for them it's such a like integral part of who they are and and what they're training for and their community, and you know, thinking of them and hoping that it doesn't put off anyone, you know, in the sport that maybe thought, like, I'm gonna just do that this one more year, this will be my last year. Um, definitely don't make that like your last year, um, and hopefully it can happen next year.

SPEAKER_08 9:41

Yeah, absolutely. But let's look at something a little bit more positive. So, one of the highlights of the diving professional calendar is the Dima show in the US, big uh international show that I know we all enjoy from the Deeper Blue team and Girls at Scuba, and uh that's due for November. They're very keen to make sure that everyone who, as potential attendees, know that the Las Vegas, which is going to be this year, Tom Ingram, who is the exec director at Dima, sent out a note this week to say that Las Vegas is definitely open for business at the moment. They have listed out a whole load of different shows. There's about 25 different shows between now and the end of the year, with all attendance above 5,000 people that are currently planning to go ahead. So Dima at the moment looks like it's will likely be on, which would be fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 10:32

I mean, music to our ears, right? I mean, that's the kind of news we love to hear. And obviously, we hope here more optimistic, but prepared that maybe that won't happen. But it's looking more likely than not. And I mean, for it to happen again in Vegas, it's almost like when was it, two years ago that we were last in Vegas? You know, because then usually they would have it in New Orleans, and now they've just had to cancel that. So we're back to Vegas, which you know, I mean, if you haven't been to Vegas, that in itself is an experience. But having a chance to be together with everyone from the dive and free dive community will in itself be enough. I mean, it could it could be anywhere, in my opinion. It's exciting.

SPEAKER_08 11:12

I know, and the key thing for both Deeper Blue and obviously Girls at Scuba for you, Sarah is you know, we're big communities and we're all about engaging and talking to people. And I think not just us, but the whole community is really, really missing being able to meet up in person. As much as there's very cool things going on, obviously, like this podcast and you know, social media and things like Clubhouse, which we're both spending quite a bit of time on. It's just not the same as being able to go and see people in person and and talk about the things that we love and seeing all the new cool stuff that's going on in the diving world.

SPEAKER_06 11:43

Yeah, we need our human connection, but our idea we could do the podcast in Dima when we're at Dima and we could have so many guests.

SPEAKER_08 11:51

There'd be a bit annoyed back around, but well, there's certainly a possibility we could get a room in the convention center and record rather than live on the booth. But a Dima special, I love that idea, Sarah. Look, look, look forward to that. It's happening. Special podcast episodes direct from the show floor of Dima. That sounds like a dangerous idea. Live from the breath hold and brew deeper blue party. That's uh even more dangerous. Right, on with the news. So this is uh it's a little bit heartbreaking, but touching, I think, the story. So there was the tsunami in 2011, a Fukushima in Japan. There was a man who had lost his wife as part of a tsunami, which is heartbreaking in its own right. And what he's done is he has actually learnt to dive. He originally was looking for her for about 10 hours, and he's actually learnt to dive so he could actually get in the sea and not only search for her, but you know, obviously he he realizes that there's no chance of finding her alive at this point, but trying to find some memory of her. And he says he feels very connected to a spirit when he's diving the sea, which is heartbreaking but very touching at the same time.

SPEAKER_06 13:02

You're right, it's this really sad story initially, but something like that that can not only connect you with a loved one, but connect you with the ocean. He has got a whole journey ahead of him in experiencing the magic that lies in the ocean, and if that can make him also feel closer to his wife, I think it's beautiful. I think actually it will end up being a really lovely story.

SPEAKER_08 13:24

We all feel very connected when we go diving. We all feel very connected to the ocean and so on. This just is a another special thing for him as he goes diving to feel really connected to his wife. So good on him. I say good on him going and doing this as well. Last story of this week, uh talking about social media, this one appeared on TikTok. This was a lady who had been on holiday in Bali, and she had filmed herself on the beach filming what she thought was a little adorable octopus while exploring the beaches. And then afterwards, she had found that someone had told her that this was a deadly, deadly octopus that she was seeing, a blue-ringed octopus she was handling, and it you know, it could have been turned out very, very differently. So she posted this on TikTok, which obviously, like all crazy stories on TikTok, went a little bit viral, which is great in its own own respect. But coming back to what we were saying earlier, Sarah, shouldn't be touching wildlife. Hopefully, that's given her a bit of a lesson at the same time.

SPEAKER_06 14:26

I mean, there's so many things wrong with a story on all levels. But first up, like, where is she finding these blue-ringed octopuses and barley coming up and diving and up around there? And I've never seen one. Like, I would love to see one of those. But also, yes, of course, maybe she doesn't know, but hopefully she knows you shouldn't be touching marine life. But also, you if you then touch marine life and you're then told that it's deadly, why would you put it on the internet? I just didn't get that. But yeah, it's a way for us to educate people. Again, I'm sure I haven't seen this video, but I'm sure maybe there were some comments telling her that it's not the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_08 15:01

But you know, Sarah, that if it hasn't, if it's not on social media, it didn't happen, right? That's the reality of it. She did upload it, it was viewed 5.7 million times this video, which is amazing. It's okay, right. Uh, yeah, she did have quite a few comments. So several TikTokers wrote in offering helpful advice. One person had said, advice from a marine biology, zoology student, never pick up, touch, or eat anything brightly colored, period, animal or plant, which is probably a good sensible way of thinking about it. Yeah. I I always remember when I was learning to dive, and my dive instructor said, if you swim up to something underwater that's tiny and it basically sits there, eyeballs you, and doesn't move, it's got something going for it. If it's something that's like 400 million times bigger than it and it isn't phased by it, probably best to just take a wide berth around it.

SPEAKER_06 15:52

That's so true. You're so right. Because I mean, all my experiences of octopus is you have to be really, really like quiet and not not come too close to them at all. And as soon as they see you, they're off. So this blue ringed octopus has been like, come at me, gal, do you know what I can do to you?

SPEAKER_08 16:09

Crazy, crazy. So there we are. That's our public service announcement for the week, which is don't touch anything underwater, in particular if it's brightly coloured or got blue rings on it. So there you are, that's the news for the week. So, Sarah, thank you for joining this week. Great to have you on, as always. Thanks for the news and catch up next week.

SPEAKER_06 16:27

See you soon.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Hi, I'm Freediver William Truebridge. And you are listening to the best 30 Minutes of Out Diving. The Deeper Blue Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Hi, this is Jason Elias, producer of the Deeper Blue Podcast. In today's episode, Deeper Blue co-host Lyndon Wolbert speaks with Women's Diving Hall of Fame member Annie Crawley. Annie's incredible energy and spirit have led to a dynamic career in the ocean, from being a dive master focused on teaching children and teens to dive to being an underwater filmmaker and photographer. Ocean Annie, as she is known in the dive industry, spoke a bit about Planet Ocean, her new book coming out, about the state of the world seas. And that inevitably led to deeper discussions of the communal environmental responsibility we as divers share, particularly in what we communicate to those who don't dive. And finally, Annie shared an indelible experience she had with a humpback whale mother of the island of Tonga.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Annie, thank you so much for diving in with us today on the Deeper Blue podcast. Tell me more about your newest masterpiece, Planet Ocean, Why We All Need a Healthy Ocean.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

This book has been in the works for more than five years. I collaborated with Patricia Newman, who's an award-winning author, and this is our third title together. And we did plastic ahoy right after my trip to the North Pacific Gyre and documented the garbage patch. That was way back in 2009. And when I came back, I wanted to talk all about plastic pollution, and nobody wanted to talk trash. So with the huge movement of bringing to light the issues of pollution in our ocean, it was a perfect partnership to tackle not only the plastics in the ocean, but also climate change and carbon pollution as well. So I have great hope for what we're all working towards now. I believe that we're all ocean citizens. And a lot of people feel bad about the sheer amount of plastic pollution that we're putting in our ocean. And I come from a different place because I remember a decade ago nobody wanted to talk about it. And now we are all making changes on corporate levels, policy levels, in how we choose when we're divers to interact with our ocean. And so this is an extension of this hope that I have for the future of our planet.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Well, Annie, it is just incredible to see the fusion of illustrations, colorful photographs, and QR codes that lead to videos. I mean, this is just the most dynamic publication that I have seen about our oceans.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

It was very important for us to take our readers to the places because when we're in the dive community and we're talking diving and we're talking ocean, we're part of a unique community of people on our planet. I remember reading the oxygen that we breathe comes from the phytoplankton mass in the ocean, and that it's been doing that for 1.7 billion years, and that literally every breath we take connects us to the sea. And I thought if our world was taught that in second grade, instead of that the oxygen comes from trees and plants, or could we create a paradigm shift around the ocean? Most people are scared of water. We learn to swim so we don't drown. And so we start our journey off with a fear of water. And so I think that it's really important that I do this outreach that reaches a different audience because we have to work together to create this paradigm shift on how people view and interact with the sea. And who better to help shift it than those of us who have a deep connection and feel as if the ocean is our home?

SPEAKER_03 20:41

I just I have so much admiration for the way you convey the importance of our oceans. And I'm so curious if there is a poignant moment that you experienced underwater in your career traveling around the globe that you could take us on a dive with you. What happened that was just a quintessential moment that connected you to the underwater world?

SPEAKER_02 21:08

This is probably the hardest question because I've been a scuba instructor for 25 years. There's so many I can't even count. I would say that the biggest impact in my life in the last few years has been snorkeling with mother and baby humpback whales. And I had this experience with seven women when I led a trip in Tonga. I truly believe that when I am in the water, that I am communicating with them with my camera and the vibes that I send out, they feel. And this mother just shared her baby with us. She could almost feel the energy from the feminine divine. Divine and we could feel hers. It was here, film my baby, see her as I see her. Share this with our world because we need you to carry our stories into your world in order to create the change that we need. I've heard from a whale scientist that in our world you should follow the whales because they've been here for so many millions of years. And following these whales' migration and their journeys and connecting them on a soul level. When you look into the eye of a mother humpback whale is probably the most quintessential experience I've had.

SPEAKER_04 23:18

I'm journalist and ocean advocate Kinga Phillips, and this is the Deeper Blue Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Season two of the Deeper Blue Podcast is brought to you by Sunto. I just want to say a big thanks to Sunto for being the first sponsor of this show. They've really shown their commitment to what we're doing. They believe in the podcast, but also about what we represent, which is a way for the community, the ocean and dive community, to hear from each other, connect with each other, and share their passion and love for the ocean. I also want to say personally that I use a Sunto dive computer, and it's fantastic. But I'll also say that before I knew what Sunto was, I would have taken any dive computer that my dive shop was selling. But now that I've had an interaction with Sinto, now that I've actually spent time talking with them about what they represent, who they are, and understand the people that work there, I might be a Sunto fan for life. And I just want to say thank you to Sunto for sponsoring us. I don't have a tagline for you. I don't have anything to say beyond that. I just want to say thank you to Sunto for sponsoring us in this season of the Deep Reboot Podcast. Sunto. Today's top tip comes from Christina Zenato, also known as the mother of sharks. Christina is known for the deep and intimate relationship she shares with the sharks in the Bahamas. But her tip today is much simpler and circles around the idea that newer isn't always better.

SPEAKER_05 24:47

My top tip for divers would be the new, new, new, new. We're always such eager when we go somewhere new to bring our newest piece of gear and our newest camera. And usually it's my don't. Actually, make sure that you bring to your new place everything that you know about your gear and about your camera. And if you have a new camera, take it first in a place that you know rather than do this new, new, new. And it will save a lot of troubles, a lot of frustrations, and a lot of missed opportunities.

SPEAKER_08 25:28

Finally, every episode we share a story from you, the dive community, where we ask you to tell us about your best dive ever.

SPEAKER_07 25:36

So my name is Jonathan Self. I'm from the Chicago, Illinois area, uh, not known for its diving. And my best dive ever, it's a tough one to call, but I'd probably say the thing that kind of started it off for me and my routine, which I'm fortunate enough to be about a four-hour flight from the Yucatan where I free dive in the cenote's down there. And it wasn't really until until later that I learned that this was actually a bucket list for a lot of free divers. And that's just kind of my backyard, and I'm completely spoiled. And for those of you who have never been, the divers down there tend to run around the instructors and they try to find secret new holes and caves no one's ever found, just kind of keep things fresh and keep people interested. And you drive a couple hours into the jungle, bounce around at a pickup truck, and you pull up, and there's some indigenous family who owns some land, and they happen to have a cenote on their property, and you you walk up to this pit, just a pit in the ground, and it is terrifying. And it looks like you will definitely die if you get into this pit in the jungle. But you get over it and you jump in, and this whole new world opens up, and it's insane. It is a cathedral of stunning beauty, and it's the closest you'll ever come to living your Indiana Jones fantasies. And when you're bobbing in that crystal clear water and you are just floating in the what feels like the veins of the earth, it's hard to picture a more sacred place to look up the clouds and just be glad that you're alive.

SPEAKER_08 27:06

We'd love to hear your story about diving. So at the end of the show, you'll find out all the info you need to submit your best dive ever. Thanks for listening to the Deeper Blue Podcast. Find out more on all the stories you've heard this week, plus connect to the world's largest online dive community at deeperblue.com. And if you like what you've heard, please subscribe, like, and comment wherever you hear your podcasts. These comments and subscribes really make a difference. Before we go, I want to give a big shout out to Jason Elias, our producer. In case you didn't know, he has an amazing podcast about people who have a deep connection to our world's oceans. Connections strong enough that they've dedicated some part of their lives to being in or working on behalf of the water. Take a listen when you get a moment to Jason's show, the Big Deep Podcast. Every week, we want to hear your stories and share them with the world. So please record and send in your short story of your best dive ever. Keep it brief, no longer than two minutes, please. And in it, tell us your name and location, where you were on the dive, what happened that make it so great, and why it's meant so much to you. You can get that over to us at bestdiveever at deeperblue.com, or head to our website podcast.deeperblue.com forward slash best diveever. Join us again next week and explore much more of the deeper blue.