Julie Riffe on yet another crazy time in Cabo (but not what you think), and John Stella on why you should always be thinking about diving

Jason Elias:
Season three of the DeeperBlue Podcast is brought to you by Suunto. Finnish engineering pioneering adventure from mountaintop to ocean floor since 1936. Suunto.

Jason Elias:
Welcome to the DeeperBlue Podcast, your weekly guide to everything that is happening around the world, underwater. My name is Jason Elias, and I'm producer of the DeeperBlue Podcast, the podcast for DeeperBlue.com, the world's most popular diving website. Every week, the DeeperBlue Podcast covers everything that is happening in the scuba, freediving, dive travel, and ocean advocacy world. So join us as we explore the DeeperBlue.

Jason Elias:
Hi everyone, welcome back to the DeeperBlue Podcast. This is Jason Elias, producer of the podcast.

Linden Wolbert:
And this is Linden Wolbert, professional mermaid and co-host of the DeeperBlue Podcast.

Jason Elias:
So Steven Whelan, the founder and grand fromage of the entire site and podcast, is on vacation. So Linden and I will be doing the news. Linden, it's wonderful to have you here.

Linden Wolbert:
Oh, it's a delight to be here with you, Jason. Always.

Jason Elias:
So let's get to the news. So we're going to start off, I think, with Linden. Some news that you know something about. Some freediving news.

Linden Wolbert:
Well, for all of you who are in the world of freediving or are adjacent to it, you know that the Vertical Blue freediving competition has been going on down in Long Island, Bahamas. Founded by Will Trubridge, an incredible competition. The Wimbledon of freediving, and this is no exception. This year after a miss from 2020, we are seeing incredible shatterings of... I call it a glass floor, actually, because if it were a ceiling, it would be up. But we're going down when we're diving.

Linden Wolbert:
We are seeing a Alenka Artnik, for example, of Slovenia, just broke an incredible constant weight freediving record of 120 meters into Dean's Blue Hole. It is such an impressive feat, because you have to remember that these divers, they're not just going to 120 meters or several hundred feet one way. They're doing that round trip on a single breath of air. So really, double that.

Linden Wolbert:
In the women's categories we have Alessia Zecchini of Italy, who did a 101 meter in free immersion. Now the free immersion discipline in freediving is when you aren't kicking it all, but you're pulling yourself up and down the line, the rope, with your hands.

Jason Elias:
Do you wear fins when you're doing that?

Linden Wolbert:
Nope.

Jason Elias:
No fins in that. Just pulling yourself up and down.

Linden Wolbert:
Yip. You're just generally in a little wetsuit and a weight belt, and pulling yourself up down the line. It's very simple, very relaxed discipline of the sport. And then the men, oh my gosh. They're crashing through these records as well. We've seen incredible records from various countries, including Pepe Salsedo of Mexico. He dived to 94 meters in the constant weight discipline with, bi fins. Now, most divers dive with mono fins on, or like a mermaid tail. And then there's this kind of resurgence of the discipline of constant weight with bi fins, which is just regular long blade fins, two fins, making them bipedal.

Jason Elias:
So what is the advantage or disadvantage of either one of those?

Linden Wolbert:
It is much more efficient to use a monofin because you're using your core strength to ascend and descend, which we know is much more powerful. We don't see whales or dolphins or any other fish designed with a bipedal movement because it's just not as efficient.

Jason Elias:
Oh. Oh.

Linden Wolbert:
So it's actually kind of like this, "Hmm. Look at me. I got this deep in bi fins.". You know, because it's harder.

Jason Elias:
Cool.

Linden Wolbert:
You get lactic acid buildup in your legs when you're kicking versus using your core. So it's a really different experience.

Jason Elias:
Cool. Very cool. What is it about Vertical Blue that... Why are there records broken here? Is there something special about this place?

Linden Wolbert:
There's so many special things about Dean's Blue Hole. First of all, it's the second deepest sinkhole in the world, and it is in limestone. It basically collapsed and created this very deep sinkhole, 663 feet deep. And it is so ideal because it's a beautiful island, it's a very safe, gorgeous, tropical, warm place. There's very little thermocline. It's a very gradual change in the temperature. And even as you go down, it's dark down there, which is, I guess, the only disadvantage to being in the open ocean doing a dive where the sunlight and a clear destination can go all the way down to 400 feet, for example. In Dean's Blue Hole, it is just... It's accessible, it's easy, it's protected. It's in a Cove in this little lagoon. It's just an incredibly ideal scenario, with all the right elements in place for access, success, and comfort for diving.

Jason Elias:
And records. Very cool. Well, that's great news. That's very exciting that that's going on. It's also nice to see the world opening up like that.

Jason Elias:
Okay, so onto our next story, which is maybe a little less positive. This is about the soul, the  vaquita in the Gulf of California. So a report came out this week that the Mexican government has eradicated a no tolerance zone in the upper Gulf of California meant to protect the critically endangered porpoise called the vaquita. Now, right now they believe there's only nine left in the wild. So this is an animal that is basically on the brink of extinction, and the Mexican government, unfortunately, has just removed almost all restrictions for fishing in this area. They don't allow you to fish the vaquita, but they're allowing gillnet fishing to happen in the area, which is, of course, where basically anything can be caught up into it.

Linden Wolbert:
The thing is the bycatch for catching the totoaba, which is the fish that everyone is trying to get in that part of the Gulf. So you end up having all of these bycatch creatures, and one of the most detrimental, of course, being that extremely critically endangered vaquita.

Jason Elias:
Why they did this was a big question, and it turned out the Mexican basically was trying to get votes. Their concern is less about the environment and, perhaps, more about their popularity. And one of the other things about it, is that there will be a few votes that they get this, but the people that are really going to benefit from this are not necessarily even Mexicans. It's the, as you mentioned before, the totoaba fishermen, who tend to be Chinese trawlers. Just sad news.

Jason Elias:
Well, so let's move on to something maybe a little bit more positive. Which is, we found this article about a shark science community for women of color.

Linden Wolbert:
Yes.

Jason Elias:
And we just thought we would mention this because this is great to see diversity come into the dive community, but also into the dive science community.

Linden Wolbert:
So there are four women who got together and launched Minorities in Shark Sciences, also known as MISS for short.

Jason Elias:
Yes.

Linden Wolbert:
M I S S. Last year on Juneteenth. So, I think this is amazing because there is just such a need to have this diversity in our dive community. And not just in that, but in the science department, in the shark conservation realm. And I love that they have taken this initiative and they've been featured on Discovery.

Jason Elias:
And we also found them, we found this on NPR. So obviously they are getting a little bit of publicity. And of course, now that we've discovered them, they're going to be on probably the largest media organization in the world. We're going to get them on the DeeperBlue Podcast.

Jason Elias:
Next. I brought this article up. As some of our listeners may know, I tend to find articles that are at the lower end of the spectrum. And I brought this one up, and Linden got very excited because it talks about whale vomit, and Linden says she could speak at length about whale vomit. So...

Linden Wolbert:
Only specific whale vomit, okay Jason? Let's be fair here. And it's actually, it's it's whale vomit. And what we're talking about is the substance called ambergris, which is produced only by sperm whales. Now the sperm whale is known for creating this waxy substance because they feed primarily on animals that -

Jason Elias:
Squid.

Linden Wolbert:
Squid. Have beaks. Sharp beaks, but their bodies can't digest it. So their body creates this waxy, positively buoyant substance called Ambergris, which smells absolutely wretched, apparently, I've never smelled it personally, on its own. Makes an incredible ingredient for perfume. Not just to give it a certain fragrance.

Jason Elias:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right.

Linden Wolbert:
But it also serves as a preservative of fine fragrance. It's also used in medicines around the world for various things. So this is a highly prized, worth more than its weight in gold, substance that can be sometimes found floating on the surface of the ocean, because it is waxy and floats. Sometimes people find it washed up on the shore. But then, understandably, there are poachers out there who will try to hunt Ambergris in the bowels or stomachs of sperm whales.

Jason Elias:
Right.

Linden Wolbert:
And that is what these men were suspected of doing.

Jason Elias:
Right. So that's why this story came up, because there's the whole higher ethos side that Linden pays attention to, about understanding these beautiful Marine creatures. And then there's the underbelly of the human foibles that I love. And it's three guys in Mumbai who got busted with a bag of ambergrease. They said that they had not hunted it, they were just basically transporting it. Which reminds me of the time that my parents found pot in my room and I said it wasn't mine.

Linden Wolbert:
I'm only transporting it.

Jason Elias:
I said I was holding it for a friend. So anyways, these three bumbling guys in Mumbai got busted with it, but it brought, again, attention to the fact that... You know, ambergris is something that I kind of associate with Moby Dick, as something from the 18th century that, when we used to light oil lamps and ambergris was a prized commodity, but it's still something that people do nefarious deeds for. So I just thought that this story was somewhat interesting.

Jason Elias:
Okay, so moving on to another part of the world. This story is for ancient nerds like me. I happen to read all kinds of books on ancient history, and divers identify a rare find at the site of an ancient Egyptian sunken city. They found a military vessel and a funerary complex in the city of... Why don't you handle this city name, Linden, here.

Linden Wolbert:
Drum roll please, Jason. Thonis Heracleion.

Jason Elias:
Thonis Heracleion.

Linden Wolbert:
Heracleion. Heracleion.

Jason Elias:
Heracleion. It was Egypt's largest port in the Mediterranean, and it was basically the port complex for Alexandria. And the ancient city of Alexandria and Thonis Heracleion. went beneath the surface of the waves. Maybe, they think maybe 200 BC, something like that, BCE. Because of both earthquakes and tidal waves. But it's also meant that there has been this shallow ancient city that could be dived for a long, long time. You have to get permits and permission to do it, but it's an incredible place to go. And they just recently found this ancient shipwreck, and some of the pictures from it are so cool. There's a couple in here of ancient timbers from a ship. There's even a picture of a military vessel or pot with the engravings and markings and paintings still on it. Just [inaudible 00:11:06]. I just love this stuff, the fact that something from 2000 years ago that someone else held in their hand that we can hold in our hand now. I just love that kind of stuff.

Linden Wolbert:
Yes, me too. It's fascinating not only because... Here it is, it used to be on terra firma, and now it's a submerged piece of history, which adds to that magic. It's like, wow, you're suspended in the water, in time. There's something about that.

Jason Elias:
It's so cool. And this is definitely on my bucket list of places to go. Even if I was told that this was, like, you're not going to see much, just the idea of who walked those streets that I now swim is an incredible feeling. So, just wanted to bring this [inaudible 00:11:43], because that's something nerdy for me.

Jason Elias:
I think -

Linden Wolbert:
Talk nerdy to us, Jason. Talk nerdy to us.

Jason Elias:
Every time I bring up ancient history to my wife, that's exactly what she says.

Jason Elias:
Okay. Last story. Probably, again, one of... You can tell which stories I bring to the table. But this story is... I just love this story. So many of us live in big modern cities and in those modern cities, there's ways that we have to keep the sewers clean. Mexico City has a unique way where they have a submerged diver, that his entire job is to dive the sewer system and keep it running clean and efficient. Now there's all kinds of things about this story that I love. First off, the guy seen it was like an... Julio Cesar Cu is his name. Seems like a really cool guy. He's been doing it for, I think, 38 years he's been the only diver in the Mexico city sewage system job, but he has seen some crazy stuff. He does talk about it, that he loses his visibility at 10 centimeters down. So, essentially, he's diving blind all the time and it doesn't matter what kind of mask, he's tried all different types of masks, with lights and all kinds of stuff. Essentially what he does, he says, "I have to just dive by feel."

Linden Wolbert:
I just want to know what is the most interesting thing that he has cleared from the sewage system?

Jason Elias:
Nicely then. He talks about the fact that there's like some tree trunks and nail and glass. But because this is Mexico city, and because it has a, shall we say, dark underbelly, that he has found body parts and bodies as well. And he actually says that one of the most interesting things, or one of the most important things he's ever done was, he was looking for a body that they asked him to find, that the police asked him to find, and he found it. Now again, if he's doing this by feel, I can't have matching what his experience is to be looking for feel for a body in complete pitch black. I mean, that seems like a nightmare job to me. And yet, Julio Cesar Cu says that this is his dream job. He says that -

Linden Wolbert:
Look at him in his suit. So there's a photograph in the article, of Julio. And it's amazing because he is in a full face mask. He is in a vulcanized rubber drysuit. So the good news is that Julio's entire body is protected. None of his body actually comes into direct contact with any of, thank goodness, these things that he is seeking. Which has to be a blessing for his health, and also just for his sanity.

Jason Elias:
I think one of the things it speaks to... One of the things that I love about human beings is the rich diversity of experience that so many people have. Every single person has a unique story in this world. And one of the things I love about diving is hear how people take this thing that you and I connect with very deeply. I would argue that we both have interesting ways of connecting to diving. You became a mermaid, I do podcasts around it. And then we have Julio Cesar Cu who dives in the open sewers of Mexico City. And yet we are all connected by the fact that we have a deep connection to this activity. So that's the reason I wanted to bring this story. Plus he says it's his dream job. I mean, if I ever get pissed off about being a professional photographer, I just got to think about Julio, and I think I'll kind of reorient myself.

Linden Wolbert:
You know what I wish for Julio? Julio, if you're out there listening, I hope a giant lump of ambergris floats through magically into the Mexico City sewer system, and you find it, and you know what it is. And you're like, "Oh wow. I could retire."

Jason Elias:
Well, that's a great way to wrap it up. So thanks everyone for listening, on with the rest of the show. Thanks for doing this, Linden.

Linden Wolbert:
Thank you, Jason.

Rosie Bancroft.:
The world underwater, every week. I'm Rosie Bancroft. I'm a zoologist, Marine conservationist. I have one leg and I trained for the Paralympics in swimming. You're listening to the DeeperBlue Podcast

Linden Wolbert:
Today's guest is Julie Riffe of the world-famous Riffe International. Mother of two lovely young spear fisherwomen, and world and national record setting spearfisher herself. In today's interview, Julie talks about an unforgettable experience in the sea of Cortez. Julie, thank you so much for making time to talk with us today.

Julie Riffe:
Thank you, Linden, for having me.

Linden Wolbert:
So you have this incredible, rich family history of freediving and spearfishing. Tell me about the inception of your introduction to the underwater world.

Julie Riffe:
Well, obviously it came from a young age, and growing up with the eyes of my father and the ocean. It came so natural to me. So I want to say that my father gifted us with the blessing of the ocean, and introducing us at such a young age, and getting in the water. I started spearfishing at 12, obviously, but it took a lot of trips to Catalina and getting my feet wet, masks on the face.

Julie Riffe:
And as I entered my teenage years, I became more engaged in everything my father did and I shadowed him. Building spear guns in the garage to going on these dive trips, hunting for white sea bass. And one particular exciting adventure, I went to Mexico and landed a 38 pound white sea bass, granting me third place in the competition. And this interesting perk of that adventure was, never leave home without a dive knife, because I had to chew the kelp to get my fish out. The fish has entangled itself. The wind was blowing, the sun was setting, nobody could hear me screaming for help, and I had to go down and just rally that kelp together and just start biting through it. And this was my first white sea bass. And so it was just so exciting to come back to the boat and the grin on my father's face was from ear to ear.

Julie Riffe:
And it was just a really cool experience. And that drive, that first white sea bass gave me that itch to travel alone, travel to hunt big fish. I mean, it was a whole different ball game from shooting little yellowtails in my local waters. I wanted to go bigger and better.

Linden Wolbert:
Good for you, Julie. Because as we know, this is a male dominated sport. For you to really embody that sportsmanship of your family had to have felt so amazing.

Julie Riffe:
Oh yeah. The whole outlook with people looking at me now, it was a different feeling, a different way. I'm like, I work for the company, helping, I've been always in the garage with my dad sanding spearguns, and then launching the company, from RIFFE Spearguns to RIFFE International. It really took a jump. And with my passion and drive in the sport, because I was landing these prize fish like my dad. Everybody was giving me that respect. And every year it was like a new challenge and a new excitement. A new fish, a new thrill, a new dinner at the table with our friends and family. So yeah, it was fun. It was really fun to grow the company and take it to new levels.

Linden Wolbert:
Now I know you've been all over the world. You have dived with some incredible masters in the spearfishing world, but can you take us with you down memory lane into an experience that is just an unforgettable underwater moment that you had?

Julie Riffe:
Yes. I have so many extremely intense moments. From sharks to groupers, tunas, wahoos. But the one that always sticks with me, it was a day started in Cabo, Mexico. We went out on a dive to go hunt [inaudible 00:19:27] wahoo off shore, and we came across a huge pod of sperm whales. And [inaudible 00:19:35] see a couple of dolphins breaching here and there.

Julie Riffe:
A buddy of mine said, "Hey, let's get in the water." We jumped in the water, I put on my monofin, and I was swimming with these sperm whales, and there was sharks and dolphins below. They were eating a huge giant squid. There was six or eight of these sperm whales. My buddy had a camera and he was literally filming me swimming in and out.

Julie Riffe:
I've never felt so small. That was such an incredible experience to have swam with those guys. We worked our way back in shore, and right before entering the harbor comes a pod of Orca whales. We got to swim with the baby orca, came right up to me. I realized it was very curious. They just circled me and my heart was racing. The excitement and the adrenaline of our day was so thrilling. We were so eager to land some food. So we went hunting for grouper and snapper for dinner that evening. And we got to share an amazing story and had an amazing meal. It was such a great experience.

Mariam Alsaif:
My name is Mariam Alsaif. I'm one of the first women to ever own a dive company in Kuwait. And you're listening to the best 30 minutes about diving. The DeeperBlue Podcast.

Linden Wolbert:
John Stella is a long time scuba pro and archeological diver, and his top tip today covers why it's so important to keep diving front and center.

John Stella:
My tip would be for any diver out there. Don't let diving slip away from your life, because you never know what's around the corner. It really opens up the world. It opens up not only an experience of archeological significance, but it can open up environmental concerns as well. You know, we have an environment of the oceans that are so important to our lives. I mean, this is really planet water, and it's important to be an ambassador to the underwater world. And when you see something that isn't right in the oceans, say something. Say something, and work to clean the oceans. [inaudible 00:22:31] that would be my tip.

Sofía Gómez Uribe:
You are listening to the world's only weekly podcast for scuba diving, freediving, dive travel, and ocean advocacy. I'm Sofía Gómez Uribe from Columbia. I'm a free diver, and this is the DeeperBlue Podcast.

Stephan Whelan:
So the DeeperBlue Podcast is brought to you Suunto, by the Finnish dive computer company. I'm not going to try the Finnish accent, I'm afraid.

Jason Elias:
This is a perfect Finnish accent right here. Suunto.

Stephan Whelan:
So this may be a very short-lived sponsorship, just so you know. So, one of the things I wanted to say is, some of the absolute, most amazing people that we've had on the podcast, both yours and mine, Jason, actually.

Jason Elias:
That's true. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Stephan Whelan:
Are sponsored by Suunto. They're Suunto divers. William Trubridge the 19 time -

Jason Elias:
18 or 19.

Stephan Whelan:
19. 19 time world record freediving champion.

Jason Elias:
And very nice guy. I got to interview  him. He was a very nice guy.

Stephan Whelan:
Yeah, I absolutely love Will. Fantastic guy. Had a little baby, which you and I know a lot.

Jason Elias:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jill Heinerth also is sponsored.

Stephan Whelan:
Jill Heinerth is the absolutely amazing cave diver.

Jason Elias:
Incredible.

Stephan Whelan:
Jill.

Jason Elias:
Incredible.

Stephan Whelan:
Read her book. Absolutely love seeing Jill and talking to her. She has been to places on this planet, in caves, that less people have been to than have been to the moon.

Jason Elias:
That's right.

Jason Elias:
And her book, I got to say, my wife just started reading her book last night, because for my other podcast, the Big Deep podcast, I actually did a two parter episode with her. And my wife listened to the episode about her, and she said it was such an amazing episode that she wants to read the book. And the book is actually incredible. And she's able to do a lot of this because she's sponsored by Suunto.

Stephan Whelan:
Yeah, absolutely amazing person, Jill. And very humble, down to earth.

Jason Elias:
Does Suunto have a specific cave diving dive computer? Is that something that is out there in the... Is there something like that?

Stephan Whelan:
It's not specific... I mean, cave diving is a very technical, very precise discipline in in scuba.

Jason Elias:
Yeah.

Stephan Whelan:
And yeah, they have products which are geared towards that.

Jason Elias:
Yeah.

Stephan Whelan:
So things like the EON Steel, for example, computer is very geared towards technical diving. It's a lot of mixed gas, especially deep and long cave dives is [crosstalk 00:24:53] mixed gas and all that stuff. So that's where their products come in. Whereas someone like a free diver, like William, Will wants the smallest computer. Yeah, he doesn't want something bulky on his wrist that's going to interfere with his dive profile and how hydrodynamic he is.

Jason Elias:
Right, Sure. [crosstalk 00:25:08]

Stephan Whelan:
How streamlined in the water.

Jason Elias:
Sure.

Stephan Whelan:
So nice wristwatch that he can just have in his risk would be fantastic.

Jason Elias:
Yeah.

Stephan Whelan:
Which is like the D five.

Jason Elias:
Right. And do they make a dive computer for someone like me that floats on the surface like a broken surfboard?

Stephan Whelan:
I'm not sure anyone makes anything that's good for you to be honest, Jason.

Stephan Whelan:
But I think you could... Yeah, actually, so they certainly... They used to have like the Zoop or whatever it is, which was the big beginner, bright, yellow, very big, easy to read, easy for aging eyes. You don't need to wear glasses, type thing. Big Buttons.

Jason Elias:
For my ham-handed fingers? Uh-huh (affirmative). Yeah.

Stephan Whelan:
Yeah.

Jason Elias:
Yeah.

Stephan Whelan:
So things like that would be definitely... I mean, since they have products for everything from beginners, bits of flotsam in the water like you, all the way up to the Jills and the Williams of the world.

Jason Elias:
I actually really like the fact that they sponsor really -

Stephan Whelan:
Our podcast?

Jason Elias:
And our podcast. These divers, and more importantly, our podcast.

Stephan Whelan:
Absolutely. Absolute Suunto.

Jason Elias:
Suunto.

Linden Wolbert:
Finally, in every episode we share a story from you, the dive community. Where we ask you to tell us about your best dive ever.

Dylan Ober:
Hi, my name is Dylan Ober and I'm 12 years old.

Ingram Ober:
And I am her dad, Ingram Ober. And with her mom, Marisol, and brother, Cy, We are the over Ober-Rendon family. We live in San Diego, California, and this is our best dive ever. Together as a family during a difficult year, connected by the ocean.

Dylan Ober:
In November 2020, I sat underwater about 50 feet down, staring up at the swirling silver and blue mass of thousands upon thousands of amberjacks in [inaudible 00:26:55], Mexico. And there were so many fish that they blocked out the sun. They formed a constantly changing dome over the dive master, my parents, and I, while my brother, who is nine and not yet certified, snorkeled above the school. Every once in a while, a big jack would shoot down and rub against the sandy bottom before disappearing back into the mass of fish.

Dylan Ober:
It was like experiencing firsthand something straight out of a National Geographic special. Looking at the mesmerizing form of fish made me feel alive and connected with the ocean. And at the same time, it made me feel small and insignificant compared to all the life around me. What made this moment even more amazing was knowing that there were spectacular coral reefs teeming with fish and diversity all around us within the Marine sanctuary, that exist today because of a combined effort from the Mexican government, action groups, and local families, which helped to make it 100% no fishing zone. As our dive master said, they became aware that fish were worth more alive than dead.

Dylan Ober:
With a lifetime of dive adventures ahead of me, it is great to know that, through conservation, there will be beautiful dives out there waiting for me to discover. And this is why this was my best I've ever, or maybe I should say for now, because we've already promised to go back once my brother is certified.

Linden Wolbert:
We'd love to hear about your best dive ever. So please head over to DeeperBlue.com/bestdiveever to share your story about your best dive ever.

Jason Elias:
Thanks for listening to the DeeperBlue Podcast. Find out more about all the stories you've heard, plus connect with the world's largest dive community at deeperblue.com. If you like what you heard, please share, like, and rate our show wherever you get your podcasts, as those shares and likes really make a difference. Thanks so much and see you next week.